Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:24 am Post subject: Smart filter and Shadow/highlight issue (advanced)
Hello all Photoshop masters out there. Here's a difficult one for you. I am a retoucher myself and after having tried to solve this problem for a year I'm still closer to an answer. I've decided that there might be someone brighter at the forums.
To understand my question I think you'll need to know our workflow. We are a retouching agency in Sweden. When we receive work from our clients most of the time they send their images with layers, adjustments and filters attached to them. Our clients either use Photoshop CS5 or Photoshop CS6 when building up their images. They transfer their images to us as tiff-files, but also as RAW-files with the settings attached. When we get the images we start from the beginning with the RAW-files to be absolutely sure of a nondestructive workflow. The settings attached to the RAW-images that came with the client automatically get active and we open the image with the same resolution as the tiff-image (usually 350 ppi). We then open the tiff-file with the adjustments and smart objects with filters attached to it. We than have the two images side by side. We make sure the two images look the same with only the background layer lit. They always do. After having ensured that, we get into trouble.
The following three problems occur.
1. If we for example have a smart object with shadow/highlight attached to it brought to us with our clients tiff-file. When we open the tiff everything looks great but when we double click the shadow/highlight text in the smart object to read the settings, all the settings disappear and change to our standard settings.
2. If the settings by chance doesn't disappear and we make the exact same adjustment to our shadow/highlight settings as in the tiff-image brought to us, we still don't get anywhere close to the same result. We know the shadow/highlight filter depend on image content. So we always make sure the content is the same in both images.
3. Sometimes the TIFF is at a lower resolution than the image we make out of the RAW. If that's the case we recount the radiuses of the shadow/highlight filter in the tiff to fit with the new image size we've created out of the RAW. One example could be that we receive the tiff at 150 ppi so if we want the Shadow/highlight filter to give us the same result in our 350 ppi image, we multiply the radius with 2.33. Quite often this fails to give us an equal result.
Why does these problems occur and what can we do to prevent this from happening?
Joined: 05 Mar 2003
Posts: 3987
Location: Cheltenham, UK
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:27 am Post subject:
I am slightly perplexed as to the nature of using both RAW files and layered TIFF's - my understanding is that you surely would only want to work on one of the files. I presume your clients are sending you layered TIFF's with some adjustments already in place, if so it is logical to make this the primary retouch file.
I am not sure as to the shadow/highlight resetting, but have you tried dragging and dropping the adjustment layers to your file? Obviously ensuring the resolution and dimensions are the same.
You state what version of Photoshop your clients use, but you don't state what version you use, could this be the source of your issues?
As for the difference in resolution, that can be decided at RAW stage, just make it the same as the lower resolution TIFF file. Most images don't need processing out much above 240ppi unless there are specific printing requirements. I would guess that there is a problem with your math and rounding errors in PS, but I am an artistic retoucher not a mathematical retoucher
Another thought about the differences occurred to me. Are they tagging the images with a profile and are you using the same profile? _________________ If life serves you lemons, make lemonade!
Thank you for taking your time reading my post thehermit.
You are correct I've forgotten to state which version or rather versions I use. I use both Photoshop CS5 and CS6
[quote="thehermit"]I am slightly perplexed as to the nature of using both RAW files and layered TIFF's - my understanding is that you surely would only want to work on one of the files. I presume your clients are sending you layered TIFF's with some adjustments already in place, if so it is logical to make this the primary retouch file.
As for the difference in resolution, that can be decided at RAW stage, just make it the same as the lower resolution TIFF file. Most images don't need processing out much above 240ppi unless there are specific printing requirements. I would guess that there is a problem with your math and rounding errors in PS, but I am an artistic retoucher not a mathematical retoucher
Another thought about the differences occurred to me. Are they tagging the images with a profile and are you using the same profile?[/quote]
Now I will take my time to explain and ask in return. Adressing your question about our curious RAW and TIFF workflow. All of this is a question of the photographers need to be quick when adding a look to their images, so they usually work in an unsufficient resolution just to get smaller files. Meaning after having configured their RAW file to their satisfaction they open it as an image of 150 ppi instead of what we use 350 ppi. After that they add their look with curves and stuff like smart objects with shadow/highlight.
This method may not be the best but we work with famous photographers and we can't really expect to change their ways.
Ofcourse this require us to start from the begging with the rawfile and the photographers settings to this rawfile. As for picking resolution we always have at 350ppi and we do this in Camera Raw, Lightroom or Capture One. After that we open up the smaller tiff file with the photographers look and that's when the problem starts. I hope this explains why we can't work in our customers layered imagefile as you wondered above.
You mentioned dragging and dropping. That didn't work either unfortunatly.
Finally both us and the photographers are very strict about working with ProPhoto profile in these cases. And we always agree on a specific bit-depth we both will be working in.
I hope this will explain my issue a bit more. And I'm very thankful for all the guidence I could get. I really need this.
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